Wednesday, November 11, 2009


Remembrance Day

Julia Gillard Acting Prime Minister of Australia when asked when she could not attend a Remembrance Day Service today..

"There couldn't be anything more important than this national conversation because it's about the future for every child and every school and we want to make sure that's a better future,"

"I was here (at parliament) today with the national conversation with school principals.

"(But) we did mark Remembrance Day with a minute's silence."

Oh you did observe a minutes silence did you Julia, how bloody noble and giving of you and such a personal sacrifice. Of course, we should not be surprised at the lack of regard the current government holds its fallen, after all the PM KRUDD himself was quite miffed a when told the ANZAC Day Dawn Service could not be delayed a few minutes because he had schedule clash.

Perhaps featherweights like Julie should also spend a minute and reflect exactly why she can spend time in national conversation in a free and democratic country.

Perhaps a reminder for the those who enjoy the sacrifices of those before them.

In Flander's Fields

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flander's fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep,
tho poppies grow
In Flander's fields.

Liet. -Col. John McCrae


Anonymous said...

Cant agree with you Stump. Your poem is your only crutch. How far back to you want to go. You are here because of the war of the roses - so lets remember that one too?? NO, cant agree.

oigal said...

Well thats just a silly statement if ever I read one.

Rob Baiton said...


Why is it that when people want to disagree they want to do so anonymously? Do they not believe strongly enough in what they are saying that they are prepared to be taken to task on their opinions?

While we are remembering wars for the sake of anonymous, why don't we go back to the first ever recorded war in 2700 BC (just happened to involve tribes out of Iraq and Iran - seems they have a long history of fighting)?

It really is not about remembering all wars. It is about remembering a significant moment in Australian history. There have been wars before the Great War and there have been wars after it. Yet, there are many that argue that much of the Australian belief of what and who we were and who we were to become was forged on the battlefields of the First World War.

I am sure that the above statement opens the door to those that want to go back in history and argue the case for and against Terra Nullis and the invasion of Europeans of land held for many tens of thousands of years by indigenous Australians.

Yet, when it is all said and done, Remembrance Day is an important day in the Australian psyche and collective memory, and perhaps more so with the more recent conflicts that our troops have been involved in.

Whether Julia Gillard commemorates it with a minute's silence or not at all is not an issue for me personally.

It is what it is.

oigal said...

Hey Rob,

I guess that using the Stump/Oigal as the alter ego tends prevent me taking the high moral ground on the anon issue. Although anons such as above do annoy me as there is little way to follow agenda or context. I would agrue the Stumps agenda, view on life is fairly "out there" for all to see.

I think anyone who knows Australian history would acknowledge WW1 was a turning point in Australia's identity as a nation with both positives and negatives.

Anyone who has taken the time to walk around and view the history of any country town in Australia will see the depth of commitment and sacifice made..A whole generation effectively involved in war thousands of miles away and based on...yet it was so much more..A bloody coming of age if you will.

I highly recommend the film particular the scene with old old bloke on the salt flats

Anonymous said...

Anon again.

Sorry I dont agree about the coming of age thing. We came of age and are still coming of age. We are getting younger not older (like you) wistfully remember the big guns.

Wars are stupid. I suppose you are one of those who want to see graphic details of the wounded in Afghanistan? Why? Cant we just imagine their pain? and be sad.

Surely you dont think "the war" was a good war...

what a way to grow up for a country - to get a clout over the ear!!

Dont wingeing about the anon thing, also.

oigal said...


Seriously sill comments of course, WW1 was the first time we came together as a Federation and your complete disregard for those that fell (even if you disagree with the cause) shows a significant failing in your understand of Australia. I suggest a tour around some of country Australia cemetaries and try and understand the depth of loss those town suffered. Although all too often that is impossible if one has spent ones life living on the fruits and sacrifices of others.

Wars are stupid..Yea good, so tell me when the Japanese were pushing through SE Asia..your plan was what quick trip to Toyko.."excuse me guys this is stupid now please go home" I wonder why no one thought of that???

"what a way to grow up for a country - to get a clout over the ear!!"

In some ways true enough although the ultimate end was a better world.

"who want to see graphic details of the wounded in Afghanistan? Why? Cant we just imagine their pain? and be sad."

Just a silly comment..grow up!

AND YES ANON ...It is a stupid name to write under...ANON IS AS ANON DOES

Anonymous said...

the bit about the wounded in Afghanistan is serious.,,, Saw it on ABC

83 Diggers 83 injured in Afghanistan became invisible

* INSIDE STORY: Paul Toohey
* From: The Australian
* September 26, 2009 12:00AM

IN hospitals around Australia, soldiers who have been seriously wounded in Afghanistan are checked in under false names in order to protect them from the public eye.

I appreciate your answers to my potted commentary. I guess in my family we did not have many footsoldiers. Me dad was in the CMF however. I notice from my vietnam vet friends that in general dont want to glorify or even discuss their tribulations.

oigal said...


Firstly, if you think that Rememberance Day or Anzac day is about glorifying war then you really have missed the whole point and perhaps you should attend a few services (it will mean getting up before Dawn for ANZAC Day tho). I mean that seriously, if you are going to maintain the position you have then at least attend as then make judgement after that.

If you are under the impression that its just a heap of guys yarning about daring deeds and charges to battle then you are very much mistaken.

It's about remembering lost comrades and times long past. Often these people have no one else to talk to, as you said Vets don't normally tell others of what actually happened, those there need no explanation, those who were not there no explanation will ever convey.

If you wish to say that returning servicemen do not get the support and recognition they deserve (your P. Toohey article) you will get no dispute from me.

You obviously feel you have enough time to write on the blog about the subject then perhaps 60 minutes next ANZAC Day for a dawn service would be a fair ask. Do take a few minutes to talk to some of the peopel there. I would be interested in your observations after that.

anon said...

Ok, thanks. well said. will do next time I can. The thing about knowing about the wounded still bugs me. To know or not to know?? Just saw a show on ABC about photographers and war - another touchy topic with me - witness jOhn Pilger.

by the way you are not as potty as this lord are you (on another topic)...smh today

You will not be surprised to learn that the batty peer has also found disciples in our sunburnt land.

....Step forward the usual suspects. They include Janet Albrechtsen, an excitable columnist at The Australian, who just last month wrote a gushing piece to laud the lord for revealing the wickedness afoot and, yes, the radio oracle Alan Jones, who accorded Monckton one of his fawning interviews in which the two of them sounded as if they were fleeing a tsunami. Jones, I am told, has been spouting the conspiracy line ever since.

oigal said...


You are spearing off topic sport. If you wish to debate conservative viewpoints and that great white whale, the UN happy to do so but not on this post.

By the way, just because you hold a left or leftish point of view and hate all war does not mean you have to revile the sacrifices of others. You will find very few who will honour the lunacy of some of the reasons for war but the people who fought n suffered is a different matter.

John Pilger is not one to follow even for the far left..A proven liar and fraud at every level. If you want some left heros (although thin on the ground) I can suggest some for you.

Final point "Ok, thanks. well said. will do next time I can" Seems that if you wish to ridicule or belittle people who choose to honour the fallen and those who fought at least you could find an hour next ANZAC day. That Old WW2 vet you find yourself looking at may well have spent 6 years away at War or years in POW Camp..perhaps he/she deserves 1 hour of your time at Dawn next ANZAC DAY..What do you have to lose?

Anonymous said...

Yeh right, factored in next 25th. I was speaking with an English colleague who told me that the 1000's of local war memorials scattered around his country find few caretakers these days. I am aware of most of the memorials scattered about my local district in Oz and I dont think they are suffering a similar fate. Care to comment?

oigal said...

ANON, I deleted your M.Carlton comment..a copy of comment of comment of an article I have not read hardly makes a point in any sort of context.

English Memorials cannot comment, never been there. Again you need to understand the depth of commitment of Australians in both world wars to understand why...

Rob Baiton said...


You know where my politics lie on the landscape of left and right. You know also that I believe war to be wasted time. However, one can never appreciate the sacrifice of those who served and those who died in the pursuit of a cause that they believed in, if you are not prepared to take the time to understand that sacrifice.

Perhaps it is easier for those who have served or for those who have family that have served to understand the sacrifice.

There is not a day that goes by that I do not appreciate those that sacrificed so much in order that I live and sleep comfortably in the world that I inhabit now in Australia.

As to the graphic pictures of those who have fallen. I am not necessarily against the idea of publication. If there ever was to be an advertisement for the futility of war then the graphic final scenes of some of our finest men and women might be that advertisement.

On the flip side of that, I also appreciate the concerns of family of the fallen who do not want those final moments to be seen by anyone.

All in all, I think that it should be mandatory for all people to attend at least one dawn service in their lifetime and say thank you to those who served and those that continue to serve.